Palomar Mountain Home
Palomar Mountain Planning Organization Home     Palomar Mountain Planning Organization Minutes Page

Palomar Mountain Planning Organization Minutes, 5/29/1999 Annual General Meeting minutes

Minutes of the Palomar Mountain Planning Organization 1999 Annual Meeting

Saturday, May 29, 1999 at the Palomar Mountain Lodge

Board Members Present:

Debbie Bauer, Karl Bauer (alternate), Thomas Burton, Robert Carlyle, Russ Day, Donna Dose, Elizabeth Getzoff (alternate), Bruce Graves, Susan Humason, Jack Norvall, Michael Pique, George Ravenscroft, John Tainer, Robert Thicksten, Joseph Weeks.

The annual public PMPO meeting was convened at 11:10 A.M. Saturday May 29, 1999. The Chair Bruce Graves thanked the Palomar Mountain Lodge and Joe Weeks for hosting the Pancake Breakfast and Annual Meeting, Donna Dose for organizing the breakfast, and Susan Humason for editing and producing the newsletter.

Secretary's Report (Michael Pique):

The minutes from the May 23, 1998, annual meeting were distributed and approved.

Treasurer's Report (Debbie Bauer):

As reported in the PMPO spring 1999 annual newsletter, our expenses were $333.31 for mailing the newsletter, $595.66 for the BLM/USFS resurvey work, $20.00 for post office box rental, and $32.00 for stamps. We have $5000.00 deposited for a retainer with water-right attorneys Hatch and Parent. The total donations from our members came to $4980.15 and $379.85 receipts from the 1998 breakfast. giving us a balance of $14,756.39 including the $5,000. The treasurer's report was approved.

Dual Government Survey Problem:

Jack Norvall explained how the recent US Bureau of Land Management and US Forest Service resurvey of Palomar Mountain sections 14 and 15 has resulted in the Forest Service gaining 18 acres at the expense of residents, and may have disrupted the boundaries of all parcels in those sections. In collaboration with the Forest Preservation Society of Southern California, the PMPO is working on a ``complaint'' to the BLM with the goal of restoring the official survey to the long-established lines of actual occupation. The PMPO still needs old maps, particularly of Crestline, and field notes that might help clarify survey issues. A new survey will likely be necessary, probably at the residents' expense.

Duane Dicicco, County of San Diego Land Use Policy Advisor, spoke. Supervisor Horn is dedicated to property rights and in opposition to uncompensated government takings. After Jack Norvall came down and explained the issue, it appeared the federal government had been arrogant in their dealings with people who had lived on Palomar Mountain for many years. But since it's a dispute with a federal agency, Congressional Representatives Packard and Cunningham should be enlisted. Since 58% of San Diego County is currently government property, residents are being forced to move into areas where the county does not want growth. What can we do? Let your elected representatives know: ``nag, nag, nag'', don't just show up for hearings, but meet personally with representatives and staff.

Palomar Mountain Volunteer Fire Department (PMVFD):

Chief Karl Bauer said the PMVFD has seen tremendous change the past few years. Two years ago they began a 5-year plan to provide the best possible service. Manpower and staffing are now up to averaging 3.8 firefighters on the mountain. Providing medical aid, the number one emergency call, especially how to get patients to an ambulance over bad roads in bad weather, will be improved by new Ford 4WD pickup that will be in service by July 1999. The new rescue equipment (``jaws of life'' and heavy rescue gear) purchased last year weighs 2500 pounds and will be transported in a new 4WD chassis on which the existing rescue box will be mounted.

Bids are being obtained for a new water tender, important in meeting the goal of making residents' fire insurance less expensive. The area has previously had an Insurance Service Office (ISO) rating of 10 on a scale of 1 to 10: i.e., effectively no protection. This was recently raised to ISO 9, which may make it easier to get insurance, even if at same cost. The goal now is ISO 8, which could yield a 20% to 45% drop in rates. ISO 8 would require being able to deliver 250 gallons per minute for 20 minutes, which is why we need to raise the $130,000 for a new fire engine, since the two we have are 22 and 40 years old, and the 40-year-old one can only go 7 miles per hour. The PMVFD fund raising needs new ideas and new people: the Labor Day Barbecue will continue but the long-time helpers need to pass it on.

Karl urged residents needing help to call


and ask for the PMVFD, they are on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Downzoning of Summit Properties:

Tom Burton said a little-known effect of the 1993 ``Forest Conservation Initiative'' was that the zoning of ``The Summit'' (general store, Mother's Kitchen restaurant, Yoga Center) was changed from General Commercial to Residential Commercial. Should, for example, a fire destroy the store, it could not be rebuilt and we would have no store for residents and guests. One possibility for fixing this would be for Palomar Mountain to become a ``country town'', a legal designation that would not affect taxes or services. This has been tentatively discussed with the county Department of Planning and Land Use (DPLU) and it is being considered for year 2001 general plan amendment.

Antennas on Crestline:

Bruce Graves said Relay Engineering attempted to license their proposed 120-foot Crestline tower as ``amateur'' rather than commercial but this was stopped, thanks to Jerry McLees.

Cedar Creek Water Project:

Elizabeth Getzoff reported on the status of William Yale's proposed commercial development along the East Grade Road to pump and sell well water. Mr. Yale proposes to pump, from his 7 acre parcel, between 25 and 100 acre-feet per year accumulated by the 570-acre Jeff Valley watershed, with normal use for a 7-acre parcel being one-half acre-foot per year. A September 1993 48-hour pump test on the well showed direct impacts on both Cedar Creek and on neighboring wells.

Although Mr. Yale plans to apply for a Major Use Permit, he has not yet done so, and no studies on the environmental and biological consequences of the proposed pumping have yet been done. The PMPO believes an Environmental Impact Report (EIR) is required to address the biological and long-term hydrological consequences of Cedar Creek drawdown, the traffic safety issues, the pollution and noise from the planned diesel generator, as well as the possibly precedent-setting taking of water resources. The PMPO's consultant Jerry McLees has been monitoring the county offices and reports no action in recent months. Elizabeth hopes the PMPO's efforts to be sure the project is in compliance with environmental and water laws and regulations have paid off.

New Business

Election of PMPO Board Members:

The Chair announced that there are five open seats on the PMPO Board, The five incumbents running for re-election were Jack Norvall, Bob Thicksten, Robert Carlyle, George Ravenscroft, and John Tainer/Elizabeth Getzoff. After statements by these nominees, the motion to elect them to terms extending to May 2002 was accepted by acclamation. The other board members' terms are: Joseph Weeks, Debbie Bauer/Karl Bauer, Michael Pique, Terri Bailey, and Robert Sterner (terms expiring May 2000); and Bruce Graves, Donna Dose, Tom Burton, Russ Day, and Susan Humason (terms expiring May 2001).


Robert Carlyle is petitioning the Highway Patrol for expanded weekend speeding enforcement to reduce the dangers of irresponsible motorcyclists. Sheriff Don Phelps said the Patrol was unlikely to be able to afford to have a unit sitting on the mountain enforcing this. He suggested individual citizen letters to the Temecula office captain would be even more effective than a bulk petition. He estimated two units and an airplane a few times in a month during the summer would be required. George Ravenscroft asked how many PMVFD rescue calls were for motorcycle accidents; Karl Bauer said 11 of of the 90 (in 1998).

The meeting was adjourned at 12:17 P.M.

Michael E. Pique, Secretary

Palomar Mountain home,
Palomar Mountain Planning Organization Home     Palomar Mountain Planning Organization Minutes Page